Xenocider

I didnt mean it should literally look like Rez. My advice (which of course might be not as good as i imagine) was more about a more "artistic" representation in general to make up for a - sorry to say - imo pretty dated polygon look in it's current form.
Another example could have been Milestone, whose engine and ultimately the final representation of Chaos Field was nothing to write home about either, but the cell shading and general cartoony look of their succeeding products, namely Radirgy and Karous made them pretty nice looking even to this day, despite seemingly nothing mindblowing has been changed under the hood.

You could also mix things, like for example: polygons for the environments, bitmaps and the likes for the characters, enemies, and maybe even the projectiles and make these bitmaps stand out by their unique art direction like the characters in the first Grandia, instead of generic looking „3 polygon thingies"

Just my 2 cents though

Gerade diese beiden Celshading-Teile finde ich optisch furchtbar, sind mir zu grobschlächtig. Genauso wäre mir ein Poly/Bitmap-Mix zu riskant, mich stört es extrem wenn ich in einer 3D-Umgebung platte Tapeten klar als solche erkenne. Hypertension z. B. wurde für mich erst interessant, als es auf Polygongegner setzte. Aber jeder Jeck ist anders.

BtT: ich denke, es bleibt abzuwarten, wie Xenocider tatsächlich am Ende aussehen wird, da das bereits Gezeigte wie gesagt wenig Aussagekraft besitzt weil es sich um frühe Tests handelt.

Ja, das kann es. Die Frage ist: wie sehr wird dieses Spiel das System pushen?
Gab auch damals spiele, die ich extrem hässlich fand, beispielsweise Heavy Metal Geomatrix.

Das Hauptaugenmerk auf dem N64 war ebenfalls 3D, trotzdem hätte 2D einigen Titeln meiner Meinung nach besser getan, beispielsweise dem zweiten Goemon Jump'n Run, Vaseline Earth, oder dem gecancelten Viewpoint 64.

Wie sähe es mit 2D Objekten vor FMV aus? (ok, könnte die Entwicklungskosten dezent in die Höhe treiben)

oder flat shaded polygons?

sorry, ich hör schon auf...

Kürzlich postete doch ein user (afair Pr3ston) das "geleakte" N-64 Viewpoint, es ist ein 3-D-Shooter (gefiel mir stummungstechnisch und auch grafisch gut).

edsit: Novastorm fand ich sowas von geil damals (u würd ein solches game noch heut gern einlegen), die Musik war u ist wirklich nicht schlecht und im Vergleich zum Vorgänger Microcosm konnt man's sogar gut spielen, imo.

@blank polygons

Again: Die Ästhetik untexturierter Polygongrafiken ist noch lange nicht erschöpfend eruiert worden, imo

Man sieht's am guten alten Crash, was man da rausholen kann. Auch würde mir ein Starfox-Derivat mit stark aufgebohrtem Polygoncount sehr schmecken; ich seh's schon vor meinem inneren Auge, wie ich abermals Haushohe Titanen mit lechtenden Augen krachend zu Fall bringe, während die Hundertschaften an (Polygon-)Splittern nur so fetzen u die (Bitmap-)Explosionen nur so krachen

English:

Imo, the aesthetics of shaded polygons without textures has not been explored enough, for the time, this style prevailed, was very limited, due to the rapid changes regarding 3-D environments.

This is "kinda" sad, because with (as 108 said) the right amount of phantasy and taste, incredible things can happen without (or with very few, and carefully/artfully placed) textures. You need good artists and a good stilistic vision, that works.

I talked about my unbroken fascination 4 the Crash-Bandicoot-Style, but also 4 the starwing-aesthetics. Both work with very little application of textures. Yet, they have both aged incredibly well, i think

This is due to the good artists, that worked on these titles.

As mentioned above, the whole "depth of possibilities" of several graphical-styles has not been reached, it's not even in sight, imo.

Maybe, even the bitmap-scaler or the (bitmap-brother brought it in) mixture of fmv and pre-rendered Bitmaps could be "re-invented" or done even better, who knows?

I don't think, that the peak regarding many of those interesting "in between-styles" has been reached yet; by far not...

Zitat von Omnibot2000

carlos: Thanks for the insights it's very interesting to learn more of the history of origins of Xenocider. I know that you are yet in an early stage of development, but could you already reveal what framerate and resolution you are aiming at?

All our designs and tests are done with 60 fps and 480p in mind

Zitat von Bitmap Brother

I didnt mean it should literally look like Rez. My advice (which of course might be not as good as i imagine) was more about a more "artistic" representation in general to make up for a - sorry to say - imo pretty dated polygon look in it's current form.
Another example could have been Milestone, whose engine and ultimately the final representation of Chaos Field was nothing to write home about either, but the cell shading and general cartoony look of their succeeding products, namely Radirgy and Karous made them pretty nice looking even to this day, despite seemingly nothing mindblowing has been changed under the hood.

You could also mix things, like for example: polygons for the environments, bitmaps and the likes for the characters, enemies, and maybe even the projectiles and make these bitmaps stand out by their unique art direction like the characters in the first Grandia, instead of generic looking „3 polygon thingies"

Just my 2 cents though

Don't worry, I appreciate the suggestion and I know what you mean.

I really miss the shaded / flat polygons aesthetics myself, to be honest. I think it wasn't explored enough, as @pseudogilgamesh said. Maybe for our next game

Zitat von hombreimaginario

All our designs and tests are done with 60 fps and 480p in mind

Impressive can't wait to see more of it.

@Flat Shaded Polygons: Mein erster Gedanke dazu war "ja gerne, auf dem Saturn oder auf dem Jaguar, aber wozu denn auf DC?" Aber je länger ich darüber nachdenke, desto reizvoller wird es, weil man ja ohne Texturemapping entsprechend mehr Polygone gleichzeitig darstellen kann, sprich aufwendigste Gegner und Levelarchitektur. Mir gefällt die Idee jetzt aber nicht für Xenocider, da bin ich jetzt schon auf butterweiche, hochaufgelöste und bitte feintexturierte Ballersessions eingestellt.

Zitat von Omnibot2000

Flat Shaded Polygons: Mein erster Gedanke dazu war "ja gerne, auf dem Saturn oder auf dem Jaguar, aber wozu denn auf DC?" Aber je länger ich darüber nachdenke, desto reizvoller wird es, weil man ja ohne Texturemapping entsprechend mehr Polygone gleichzeitig darstellen kann, sprich aufwendigste Gegner und Levelarchitektur. Mir gefällt die Idee jetzt

Gerade auf der DC, dank der bärenstarken HW, ihres genialen Bildoutputs und der (via VGA) Top-Auflösung könnte solch eine "blanke Ästhetik" in besonderem Maße bezaubern u betören, imo

@flat-shaded:
Wobei ich auch ein großer Fan von Gouraud u/o Phong-Shading bin.

Dev Diaries #3!

Want to know what the enemies in Xenocider will look like?

Make sure to watch until the end...

Nice!

It looks, as if your DC is set to/outputs a 16:9 picture-ratio. How did u get her to do this? I also want to join-in this "party"

I wish to know in order to make redux more "bareable"...

Zitat von 108 Sterne

Really cool, thanks for sharing!

If I can make one recommendation though: try to bring a little more color into enemies. The stingray for example would be good for that, while of course a rock monster is limited in that regard.

The reason is that in the desert, if you only use brown/yellow/red, it can end up looking a bit dull and enemies can be hard to make out at high speed gameplay, especially smaller ones.

So having some things stand out from the level palette would make sense imo. The stingray could be blue or green or something.

Just make sure to add some color variation for the senses to enjoy!

Heh. Colour palettes will be sorted out, you're right
Also, not unlike enemies in Golden Axe or Shinobi, there will be colour variations of the same 3D models. We are not racist

Zitat von pseudogilgamesh

Nice!

It looks, as if your DC is set to/outputs a 16:9 picture-ratio. How did u get her to do this? I also want to join-in this "party"

I wish to know in order to make redux more "bareable"...

Oops, sorry, I think that was just due to the screen sharing...

Zitat von 108 Sterne

I... uh... seriously don't even know what to make of that!

Is it some weird celebrity in Germany or something? xD

He had a strange tendency to force wild animals into "cuddle-sessions"/petting with him, so many-many peolple here think, that he kinda "provoked his own demise" ("good-boy!")

edit:
The stingray that stung him to death, wasn't in the mood 4 a petting/rape-session with Steven, so this man received an appropriate answer

Sad 4 his kids, though

But constantly putting wild animals under heavy stress just 4 the amusement of Zoo- and TV-entertainment, just 4 for the bucks (and not i o to save the world, to make children get in touch with nature blabla) was no good, imo.

Ah, I see. Yes, Steve Irwin, I didn't recognise the face

Thanks for this update, your communication/information is top notch so far, please keep it up
And never mind the strange sickos with their twisted humour, they are harmless actually